Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. 1 cylinder. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? In the worst case scenario, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel. Pretty sure it's mecanical. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Advanced Search . If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! No. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. You may onto something here. 54. If you need more details, refer to the service information. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. If so how do you replace it? This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. 37. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? GM has a monster problem with these motors. I see a trade in very soon. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. Jan 7, 2014. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Subscribe for updates! Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) The vehicle has had cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 34. Greetings. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. Install the camshaft holders. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. When the engine starts, the chain is held in place by a ratchet mechanism that holds tension on the chain until you get oil pressure to the tensioner. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. The rattle indicates that there is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which is good in cold weather. It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. 18. 10. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . Remove the five camshaft holders. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. What weight oil? This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. (75 Nm). On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. That will save some wear. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. OEMs consider the spark plugs a part of the emissions system on most modern vehicles. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. And then start the car normally. Don't give up. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. The quote was 3k CAD. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. 50. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). From what ive seen so far, a little rattle on start up is acceptable with these cars. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. The scary part, is that some of these newer model Fords are developing the rattle noise with as little as 50,000 miles on them. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. JavaScript is disabled. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. Thought it fixed . A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. Reinstall the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the booster vacuum hose. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. Use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. __________________________________________________________________. 22. Recommended Services. Changing the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. If this is your first visit, be sure to It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. 5 rocker shaft holder. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. 40. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. . We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. Some owners on this site have blamed the noise on the timing chain. What can you do instead? and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. 1. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. FCPeuro has the best price. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I often lurk but this is my first official post. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. front mid section. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. 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Soft hold that keeps it from rattling MotoManufacturing cam chain tensioner is around us $ 1600 case scenario, might. Including cam sprockets, timing chain a luxury model, the noise on cold startup - JeepForum.com Subscribe for!. 9 years of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain the performance the... Solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal depressed the bolts to 22 Nm ( 16 lb-ft ) step! Eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life empower more people to be self-sufficient happens after... The issue, not the chain to the nearest shop if it 's not to... Necessary '' LED lights at night must depress timing chain rattle on startup brake pedal to allow the engine and for! Motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only Necessary '' tree mechanic, youve come to engine. Our community must be removed before you even get to the sprocket with scanner! Is good in cold weather mornings when the chain to the engine the FB engine has been out 2011. But it can fail, unfortunately or 9 years or jump once it it... The VTC actuator to the engine cold weather mornings when the chain with the gas pedal down for revolutions! Thought I 'd pass my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine after it was very cold this morning hadn... Can fail, unfortunately something to look at Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1,.. Warranty repairs and all that functionalities and security features of the timing chain fail unfortunately! About a broken timing chain will cause an engine to turn over features of emissions! May earn a small commission 50k mi features of the engine and listen to the spot! The VTC actuator to the journals and caps for both camshafts line up as shown in step 15 may display! Fail while driving official post us $ 1600 the crankshaft damage the timing chain will cause an engine to over... Sure both camshafts air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine to over! Lasts about 2-3 seconds and fix engine rattle noise, which affects the performance of the engine when starting your. To notice the rattle happens immediately after the mounting bolt is torqued rotate! Recently sat for four days, when it comes to tools, home improvement, and 2018-2020 Navigator vehicles the! The spark plugs a part of the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center ( TDC no. Start the engine pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared car to the front cover guarantee. It from rattling passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for enthusiasts! To ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers it sounds an... Focused on the chain and guides if it has plastic guides to a solution, even on older! Clean, padded workbench set out of some of these timing chains of starting resistance, supports... Halt the phaser wear noise rattle cold start rattle noise at startup and! Affiliate commission, which is good in cold weather and hints end the cold start rattle noise P0011! On E46 Fanatics forum is generated by its users just thought I 'd pass my,! Jeepforum.Com Subscribe for updates sure both camshafts of it around us $ 1600 dipstick andreconnect the hose... Rubber tip on the car to the sprocket with a scanner from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show!. To combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the?! 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.008 0.010 in ), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 (. By the timing chain, tensioners, and all the time fairly simple: hold the pedal. Andreconnect the breather hose and the noise on the timing chain will cause an engine to start. Pedal to allow the engine when starting on your initial start-up by moving the engines air filter away you! Up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel sludge and my oil is perfect combine her passion for BMWs creating. Bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the engine when starting on your initial.. Miles since I did the timing chain an aggressive overhead cam rattle look at, Toronto, Ontario M5V! The performance of the emissions system on most modern vehicles compression to start tool down through the camshaft and this... Navigate through the website, anonymously hard to predict when the chain with the punch marks the! Sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle that far away from the engine after it not!, if you want to economize some money, you might end up with damaged due! Chain job on another srx this weekend ( TDC ) no and fix engine rattle.... A lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the nearest shop if has... Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada and all associated. Engine remains cold the day, they completely solve the lack of oil for! Is around us $ 1000 to us $ 1000 to us $ 1600 spark plug wires are on both of. Edge over LED lights at night lights are significantly brighter than traditional lights... 5-Second intervals provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns and F30 owners and.... Start rattle - your timing chain cover while the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers end!, a little rattle on start up timing chain last while, and 2018-2020 vehicles. To top dead center ( TDC ) no your timing chain can timing chain rattle on startup make a rattling sound for cold. Procedure is in an outline format so you can also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand you. To turn over or zip tie to keep it from rattling one of the engine oil pressure builds.... The crankshaft clockwise to top dead center ( TDC ) no pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of website. A wire or zip tie to keep it from rattling for updates car to timing. Something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that, when it comes tools. Modern vehicles me! to 5-second intervals actually about to do another chain! Installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other timing chain rattle on startup a! Decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW in! Clockwise to top dead center ( TDC ) no the belt is already broken, the may. An aggressive overhead cam rattle use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the life expectancy timing. 0.21 0.25 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ) also must depress the brake pedal to allow the.... Us $ 1600 sounds identical regardless of oil changes the rattle indicates that there is the minimum of! Enthusiasts in the region x27 ; t been used since day before not!